eSEALs Season 3 Rosters, Schedule, Maps, etc...

Discussion in 'Events' started by SkiMask, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. MR.BLONDE

    MR.BLONDE HE STINKS AND I DON'T LIKE HIM

    I think that one could argue, based on this one post alone from Harry, that in saying that the patch is not bullet-proof, he is not necessarily saying the patch isn't 'cheat-proof', but rather that people can appear to have the patch to the uninformed, while still cheating in subtle ways. I say this because the rest of his post focuses on the fact that it's possible to have ranks and clantags in LAN games without the patch that most of us use to get them. While I'm not discrediting your claim itself, I will take into question the evidence used to reach the conclusion. Hell, I'll even provide some more.

    I was among the first to ask if the cheat detection was possible to circumvent, and to use in a patched game. From what I gathered, the ability to do so would be essentially constrained to people with the knowhow that people like Harry have. Once they produce a 'cracked patch', however, I see no obstacles to distributing that patch to other players. I would like to encourage @Harry62 to correct me if I've made any assumptions or improper attributions.

    Cheating in eSEALs is possible. It could possibly be happening right now. But what can we do about that?

    Your initial posts call for the people running eSEALs to stay vigilant and aware of the possibility of cheating, but at the same time discredit their means of observation. If the cheat detection is not reliable, and match supervision by the commentators aren't reliable, what else can they do to root out cheating? I'm not meaning to ask this in a defiant or accusatory way, because I do agree that both of those means of detection are not absolute. I genuinely think there's more ways to monitor eSEALs games.

    Rainbow Six: Siege is a game that has an active eSports community, fostered by third parties as well as the developers themselves. Their Pro League is a professionally-run entity, run by ESL, the world's largest eSports company. Even still, they have their problems with cheaters.

    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/aek378/rainbow-six-siege-esports-cheating

    This articles gives a rundown of arguably the most controversial instance of alleged cheating that I can personally recall in the Siege Pro League on PC. It also briefly mentions the league's usage of MOSS (MOnitor System Status) to detect cheat programs, mouse macros, and other means of circumventing normal gameplay conditions during Pro League matches. I would link to the homepage for MOSS, but the one I see keeps triggering my antivirus and telling me not to go there, so for safety's sake, I'll leave it to you guys to find it if you wish. Anyways, anyone here that's a programmer might be familiar with it, as the same software, or at least similar, is used in programming classes to mitigate shit like plagiarism. At least, that's what I garnered.

    Even then, I would reckon MOSS isn't bulletproof either. I don't know if a program like that would be applicable to cheating on a PS2, anyways.

    Could we mandate that players somehow prove that they're playing with a genuine version of the patch? If so, how? Could the patch somehow provide additional information to the spectators of the match? Information like hit registration, damage output, or player inventory? Could we incentivize players to regulate their own teams and assure us that they're on the up and up?

    All that speculation aside, I guess my main point with this monolith of text is that eSEALs, in my opinion, has made some sizeable strides in producing a legitimate competitive community. In comparison with something as huge as ESL, I feel their measures of cheat detection are far more than I would have ever expected for such an old game. Although I believe that more steps could and should be taken, how much can we reasonably expect them to do to combat cheating?
     
    Animal-_- likes this.
  2. MACK IS GOD

    MACK IS GOD VP of Toxicity

    This all sounds eerily similar to the shills who denied cheating and manipulation was going on in online poker.

    The most used defense was "They already make untold millions off the rake! Theres no motivation to cheat! They already make so much money theres no reason to cheat!"

    Of course those people were woefully ignorant of human nature and greed and found out the hard way just how wrong they were.

    @Swill isnt saying there IS cheating, just that there is the potential is there and with the history of the game being played and human nature, its perfectly within reason to think cheating could be possible.

    Especially when you are talking about a bunch of basement dwelling NEETs who upload their Socom stats to a spreadsheet. If anyone fits the profile for a cheater, it would be one of those guys.
     
    dizee likes this.
  3. Harry62

    Harry62 hacker

    People can always cheat. One of the main issues is the non-NTSC users who need screen and color correction for their PAL/other TVs/monitors. In order to allow this the r0005 patch has smaller memory footprint. The biggest issue is the PS2 console itself. It is severely limited in power. SOCOM 2 already causes it to max out when the grenades start flying or more than a few people are rendered on screen. This leaves little that can be done by the patch without causing even more strain on the PS2.

    The only way around the patch limitations is PCSX2. The patch could be converted in to a windows process and this would open the doors to so much more. If the community sticks with PS2 then there isn't much more that can be done without sacrificing non-NTSC players and game performance.
     
    Swill and MR.BLONDE like this.
  4. Animal-_-

    Animal-_- Incurable

    Saying something happened before is not proof that it's happening now.

    Burden of proof applies perfectly here, You don't have to subscribe to it for it to be real. Your side is the only one making a claim about cheating, the eSeals guys don't have to prove something isn't happening when no one has even the slightest bit of hard proof that it is.

    So even if you want to erroneously apply the burden of proof to both sides of this argument, your side is the only one that hasn't backed up their accusations thus far. And seeing how I doubt you or anyone else is going to put in the effort to participate in or watch the league enough to gather that proof, that you guys keep coming back to this topic to dredge up unwarranted concern about cheating makes me think you either have a chip on your shoulder about someone associated with the league or you're just bored and don't really know how to conduct yourselves on this website when there's no drama to talk about so you reset to default.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
    SkiMask likes this.
  5. SkiMask

    SkiMask Devil's Advocate

    Take yer bullshit to Claymore Court if you got an accusation (eSEALs' solution to this proposed conundrum), otherwise your points/motives/theory is old and tired in this thread. Round and round.

    We all know you enable cheats in order to even have a patch. Got it, thanks for pointing out the obvious.
    No thanks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  6. Animal-_-

    Animal-_- Incurable

    I would take this and other people's arguments seriously if any of you could provide one piece of evidence that has even the tiniest whiff of cheating CURRENTLY happening in the eSeals games.

    Considering how they are actively taking steps to minimize cheating, what ideas do you or anyone with your same concerns have to take that further and make the games more secure than they are right now? I hear a lot of complaints but fuck all for ways to improve. Is that all you guys are looking to do here, just bitch about something you have no interest in making better? What's the point in even concerning yourselves with this topic in the first place? Boredom maybe?
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
    hexum and SkiMask like this.
  7. Animal-_-

    Animal-_- Incurable

    This. We literally have a forum section dedicated to resolving accusations and disputes. If anyone has real evidence of cheating in the league, provide it to Hexum or one of the other people involved in the league and a thread can be started in the Court to resolve the issue.
     
  8. hexum

    hexum [LiQ]

    this is still a discussion? Its a troll discussion. Evidence was clear when mack called out keeping stats on a spreadsheet.

    this "group" has no interest in what is going on other than to blow up conversations and keep them alive when it appears to be dying. LET IT GO (I lost count..5th time ive said that?)
     
  9. SkiMask

    SkiMask Devil's Advocate

    Is there a video yet of the "1:1 Vision" I heard about on Twitter?

    Is this something that will be used in real time or when down to the last two remaining players or...how exactly will this feature be used during the season? For uploaded highlights or how? Is this something that you just "pipe in" another feed (stream) via OBS and go that route or...

    Is there any plans at some point to put together a "week to week" highlight of the entire season or notable moments and matches? I think something like that might be worth the editing time to create. Might also serve as an example to "send off" to prospective companies in the ESL community for review.

    Anything helps and putting a "POC of eSEALs" highlights & season notables is worthy of someone's attention I hope.
     
  10. hexum

    hexum [LiQ]

    There’s a test stream in the eseals twitch as of now. Tonight will probably be he first live usage. It’ll be when it’s just a live 1v1. I made another scene in obs just for this. One view will be from ps2 and the other from the emulator.

    I’ve wanted to make highlight videos but the time needed is tough.
     
  11. Swill

    Swill Killjoy

    I didn't say I had the solutions or better means for detecting cheaters. I simply pointed out that the patch or match commentators aren't sufficient enough to prove a player is or isn't cheating. That's something E-Seals will have to figure out if and when it ever becomes an issue.
     
  12. Swill

    Swill Killjoy

    Sigh....

    Once again, and hopefully for the last time: I never said cheating is currently happening. All I ever said was that one of the issues E-Seals will have to inevitably end up dealing with is the prospect of cheaters coming into it. I said the higher the stakes the become, the more incentive there is going to be for players to find ways to cheat. It could be next week, next month, next year, 10 years from now, who knows. All I ever said was that E-Seals can't naively think that cheating won't be an issue going forward and needs to remain vigilante. That's not at all an unreasonable thing to say.

    Lastly, there is no hidden agenda. I have a pretty solid track record of being 100% straightforward and blunt, so why people think I would hide my true feelings about something is beyond me. I think E-Seals is a great thing. I don't necessarily think it should be prioritized over simply getting people to play casually first in order to build numbers, but it goes without saying that the more people playing the better, even if it's E-Seals. I don't care lol. I also already mentioned that I hope I'm wrong and cheating is never an issue they have to deal with. I also wished Hexum all the best for the coming season and that it goes well.

    All people have to do is, I don't know, read lol.
     
    eVo7 likes this.
  13. SkiMask

    SkiMask Devil's Advocate

    I stopped by last night and didn't see a 1v1 moment, but did stumble upon this from last season:

    Look at all the progression even from a month or two ago! Keep it up Hex, much appreciated!

    Now @Plierr, we needs to have some talks...Whaddaya need, Gripmaster?
    [​IMG]
    Get at me for dat FingerSpeed Training™ soon!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
    hexum likes this.
  14. hexum

    hexum [LiQ]

    yea for whatever reason my second xlink name couldnt join the room. practice makes perfect..=/
     
  15. ChicKeN

    ChicKeN Socomologist

    Fair enough.

    You seem to have a lot of speculation. Have you been watching the matches? You must have some questionable candidates.
     
  16. ChicKeN

    ChicKeN Socomologist

    Lol I forgot about Clipse's kills. I'd like to take a large part of the credit in Clipse's kills here. My vote to turn around on the first kill and my call out to throw the nade above me on the second kill (I was below the guy laying down prone and knew he was there).
     
  17. eVo7

    eVo7 Vicious Provacateur

    I was watching that match and I can tell you I haven't had that "on the edge of my seat" feeling in quite a long time. What a great match played by all. Bravo.
     
    Swill and MR.BLONDE like this.
  18. Swill

    Swill Killjoy

    Speculation about what?
     
  19. eVo7

    eVo7 Vicious Provacateur

    Hes not speculating anything and he never said anyone was cheating. He was simply stating that the possibility is always gonna be there as Harry has said that the patch is not fool proof.

    I dont understand why people cannot grasp what hes saying. Its pretty clear cut to me.
     
  20. Plierr

    Plierr SOCOM eSports ADMlN

Share This Page